Welcome to your online discussion of Kindred!
Together with members of your book group, you’ll be reading Kindred over the next several weeks. Although you're not required to take notes while you read, it would be wise to keep track of important events and characters for your own clarification. You are, however, expected to participate regularly and thoughtfully in an online discussion of FOUR essential questions.
Here's how it works:
Divide your book into three roughly equal sections. You need to have read and blogged about these sections by the due dates below.
There are two kinds of posts in this discussion: responses and comments.
Responses = direct responses to the essential questions
- Post at least TWO responses for each section of your book (SIX overall).
- You must comment on all of the essential questions over the course of your reading.
- One of your six responses can be a “free-response" post.
Comments = comment on someone else’s posted response or comment
- Post at least THREE comments for each section of your book (NINE overall).
Due dates:
- Post your first set of responses and comments by Friday, April 1.
- Post your second set of responses and comments by Monday, April 11.
- Post your third set of responses and comments by Monday, April 25.
Essential Questions:
- How does the story (setting, characters, plot, etc.) illuminate aspects of African-American culture? Be specific! (Page references are helpful.)
- How does the story (setting, characters, plot, etc.) illuminate aspects of African-American history?
- In what ways does this book refute the notion of the “single story”?
- How does the story (setting, characters, plot, etc.) reflect or illuminate the current state of race relations in our country? Have we made any progress as a society?
** Free-response option: Address another issue/episode/or passage in the book that you find
significant for any reason.
Assessment: To earn maximum credit, post thoughtful responses that are at least a short paragraph in length—and carefully proofread! Do not misspell characters' or authors’ names! Also, be sure to include specific references to the text (either details or short quotations). Page numbers, too, are always helpful.
I'd like to launch the discussion by noting a specific connection to African-American history in Chapter 3, when Dana & Kevin go back to 1815. Kevin pretends to be a white slaveowner, and Dana pretends to be his slave. No other relationship between them would be socially acceptable back then. On page 67, when Dana tells Weylin that she's from New York, he gives her an ugly look. Why, she wonders. Only later does she realize that New York is a "free state" by 1815, and so Weylin must look suspiciously on Yankees. Nigel says, "He don't want no niggers 'round here talking better than him, putting freedom ideas in our heads" (p. 74). Already we can see the rift developing between the North and the South over the issue of slavery. We also see why literate black people were so threatening to white slaveowners in the South. If slaves learned to read & write, they'd yearn to be free; they might even forge a pass to leave their plantation.
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DeleteI made notes about those pages too -- I thought it was interesting that Dana and Kevin's first thought was to forge a free slave pass for Dana in case she was sent back for longer than before. Even though they didn't get the pass made, Dana grabbed Kevin, who then served as her free slave pass.
DeleteI also have to call out the only reference to Maine in the novel, on page 63, when Kevin mentions the Missouri Compromise of 1820, which maintained the tense equilibrium between slave states and free states by adding to the U.S. one slave state (Missouri) and one free state (Maine).
ReplyDeleteIt was interesting to me that Rufus, the son of a white plantation owner, either isn't smart or doesn't have a good education. This was also Dana's thought on page twenty-seven, when she made the connection of who he must be and asks how he spelled his last name. Not only did she have to spell it out, W-E-Y-L-I-N, he wasn't exactly sure that was correct. It embarrassed him, but Dana was astonished that an older boy of white, rich origin didn't know how to spell his own last name. Also, I'm curious as to who even cares about Rufus, because he keeps getting hurt and nobody seems to be able to save him except Dana. Rufus is a trouble magnet and doesn't have book smarts -- I'm not all that shocked that Tom Weylin (his father) doesn't give him any attention. If I put myself in the shoes of a southern rich guy 1819, Mr. Weylin must be disappointed that his son lacks common sense, and worried that he won't make a very good plantation owner once Mr. Weylin dies.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Rufus is most obviously missing a great deal of intelligence. I wonder if his parents are to blame for this at all because they—his father at least—seem to be very abrupt with him. Mr. Weylin even wants Kevin to teach Rufus while he recovers from his injury. Kevin tells Dana, “He didn’t come right out and say it, but I think he’s afraid the kid isn’t very bright.” (pg. 78). Mr. Weylin obviously knows that his son isn’t the smartest. He doesn’t want him to fall further behind than he already is because of his leg injury. I wonder if Rufus will grow up to be an intelligent person. Also, if he does, will it be because of Dana and Kevin? Maybe his father will take his education more seriously and help Rufus himself; or maybe Rufus will never be fully educated.
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ReplyDeleteThis part in book really made me thing about Rufus as a character, because at first I thought he was a troubled kid who was always managing to get himself in some type of trouble but once this came up I realized that he may be a little slower mentally.
DeleteTo address the prompt about African American culture during the days of slavery, I want to bring up page sixty-eight, which talks about black families. Nigel and his father, who we learn more about later, resemble each other more than Rufus and Tom Weylin do (from Dana's perspective). This stuck out to me because I think even as slaves, that family cared more for each other than their plantation owning family cares for each other. I feel slightly guilty about saying this, but I feel like the slave families spent more time with each other and depend on each other more, so their instincts to provide protection for each other is stronger as a whole. More proof of this is later on, when Dana enters the cookhouse and works there, too. Sarah teachers her all sorts of different cooking techniques. The group of slaves works together to get jobs done; they have good communication skills; and they do speak freely and however badly they want when their master is out of earshot.
ReplyDeleteAlso, on page twenty-six, just a little before Rufus and Dana's conversation about names, Rufus shows Dana the scars around his ribcage from his father whipping him. I don't think that's the best family relationship to be having.
DeleteYeah, I think that, even though the slaves may be working against their own will, they get the job done with each other and do it efficiently.
DeleteYour observation about the close-knit slave families does seem paradoxical, given the hardships they endured—not least of which was the constant threat of being sold & separated from one's family. Three of Sarah's four children were sold by Mr. Weylin. Maybe the dangers surrounding slave families made them hold to each other more tightly.
DeleteOne of the other pages I noted was twenty-six, which lead me to thing about the effects of someone growing up in the early 1800's on a slave plantation, which I considered addressing the prompt about aspects of African American history. Rufus uses the word "nigger" casually because his parents use it, and even the black slaves use the word for themselves. The black boy, Nigel, and his father both address African Americans using the n-word as well. Dana is astounded by a boy that young, even from the 1800's, using language that is considered so offensive and derogatory in today's day and age. It went both ways; Rufus was surprised that Dana was offended by the word, too. I thought that was amusing, since there's such a difference in two hundred years between what is considered acceptable now and before.
ReplyDeleteI also think that Rufus’s constant use of the word “nigger” when referring to any black person is interesting. It shows how children were raised back in the 1800’s and what was seen as a common word. Dana is obviously stunned seeing Rufus say that multiple times because where she comes from it isn’t socially acceptable to say the “n word” the way Rufus does. She even attempts to stop him but he is so used to it that he doesn’t stop. He doesn’t even think about it, it’s so natural to him that the thought of the word is as simple as any other word.
DeleteTodays society I believe has come a long way because we have abolished slavery. Also, women are treated more equal today than when they lived on plantations back in the 1800's. Plantation owners would have normally several slaves on their land working for them.
ReplyDeleteI agree. This book tells us how women's rights changed.
DeleteNot only Dana tell about 19th century slavery, we should look up about more information to know that era.
Even Miss Margaret is subordinate to the men in the family, and her actual power is quite limited. She's even suspicious of Dana from the start—as though she already resents her as a possible rival. Why would Dana, a black slave, be threatening to the plantation mistress?
DeleteI think in this book the way it illuminates parts out of the African - American culture it shows that women and men in this culture are treated differently by the way they way they dressed.
ReplyDeleteI agree. When Rufus, Nigel, Luke, and Sarah asked Dana why she dressed like that (pages 22 , 60 ,73), they said she dressed like a man.
DeleteWhat does this suggest about gender roles, for whites and blacks, in the South at this time?
DeleteI’d like to look at African-American history in Chapter 1 on pages 13 and 14. This is when Dana first meets Rufus and saves him from drowning. Dana saves Rufus from the water only to find that he isn’t breathing. When she attempts to breathe into Rufus’s mouth, Rufus’s mother attempts to stop Dana by hitting her very hard multiple times and screaming, “You killed my baby!” (pg. 14). This originally made me assume that she was just scared for Rufus’s life and would’ve done and said the same things no matter who was trying to help him. Later in the book on page 24, after Dana saves Rufus from the fire he started, Rufus says something that contradicts what I thought earlier. He says, “Mama said she tried to stop you when she saw you doing that to me because you were just some nigger she had never seen before.” I find this important because Rufus is saying that his mother beat upon Dana and blamed her because she was African-American, assuming the worst from her. Rufus goes on to explain how his mother remembered the “Second Book of Kings” where someone named Elisha breathed into a boy’s mouth and saved him from death. This part of the book shows how African-Americans were seen back in the 1800’s; they were seen as dangerous and untrustworthy people. If Kevin was instead put into the situation that Dana was in, I wonder what Rufus’s mother would’ve done. Would she of attacked him too? Again, assuming the worst out of him since he was a stranger? Or would she of allowed him to save Rufus? Could the difference of skin color really be the difference between a murderer and a savior to her?
ReplyDeleteI assume that she would ask "What are you doing?" first and then when Kevin responds she would let him do what Dana did. Also, she probably wouldn't attack Kevin unless it looked like he was actually hurting Rufus.
DeleteMiki
DeleteWhen I was reading the page (14) The situation reminds me of the video what we have watched before in the class. The man say some people exercise caution to black people even he didn't do anything to them.
I believe Chapter 3 has a good example of African-American culture in it. When Dana and Kevin are at the plantation and Dana is with the slaves at the cookhouse, they all seem to bond. For example, on page 72, Sarah expresses her feelings towards Margaret Weylin by shouting, “Bitch!” which shows her hatred of her. Luke quiets her but Dana is able to see that everyone there all have the same thoughts of Mrs. Weylin. The slaves all question Dana about where she comes from and where she’s going. Although they’re questioning her as if they don’t trust her, the slaves all act like themselves and speak fairly freely. They’re a community of people that trust each other and live well together but are surrounded by people who literally own them. Earlier, when they’re coming to the plantation for the first time, Luke is with Mr. Weylin. He stays quiet and only speaks when he needs to. He does this to keep Mr. Weylin happy and to protect himself. At the cookhouse though, Luke talks to Dana and interacts with her. The slaves are all in the same situation and are all equal to each other. None of them have any reason to hate each other; they actually trust one another. Later in the book, on page 81, Dana mentions that Sarah begins to “warm up to her” by teaching her how to cook and connecting as people. If Dana were white, none of that would've happened. The slaves have a connection with each other as people that they cannot and will not express around white people.
ReplyDeleteGood observation, Griffin! To go along with that, I think it's interesting that one of the closest bonds in the novel so far is that between Dana and Rufus. Since Rufus is still a child, he's less conditioned by social prejudice and is drawn to Dana naturally. But Dana knows this closeness will slacken over time as Rufus grows up, and she resolves to make use of this relationship: "I would try to keep my friendship with him, maybe plant a few ideas in his mind that would help both me and the people who would be his slaves in the years to come" (68)
DeleteThe single story that this book shows is that on plantations, slaves were treated like animals. Like how the night patrol. on page 36, found the runaway slave at Alice’s house, they did nothing to gently bring them back, they tied him to a tree and whipped him like a disobedient, ill-treated animal. So Octavia E. Butler used the single-story of the white slave owners that portrayed them as being ruthless and like a dictator.
ReplyDeleteThe author definitely did a great job of setting up the “single story” stereotypes of whites in that part of the book. She makes the white men excessively violent and evil. She shows some of the worst scenarios where whites abuse black people. The way the man is whipped and tortured really sets Dana up for what to expect in the world she has so suddenly appeared in. The only real confrontation she had with a dangerous white person before that was when Mrs. Weylin attacked Dana and Mr. Weylin almost shot her when she saved Rufus from drowning. Obviously we could mention pages 41 to 43 when Dana is attacked and almost raped by one of the white men who came back after they attacked the family. That not only showed Dana what these men could do, but also what they would do to her. It was much more personal after that part because she was at the same level as every other African-American. I wonder if that will be the worst that will come for Dana and her experience with harmful white people. Maybe it will get more extreme or maybe next time she’ll be more prepared.
DeleteI agree with your comments. In fact, this book reminds me a lot of the movie "Twelve Years a Slave," in which white slave owners were characterized in much the same way. They pulse with villainy. I almost wish Butler had made them more nuanced characters, but I'm afraid this single story may have been a prevalent reality in the antebellum South.
DeleteMiki
DeleteYes, I thought same thing. Slaves were treated like animals. It was hard to keep reading at the same time I thought the author describe so much details about how owners punished the slaves.
African-american history has been probably one of the darker histories in the past. Usually you hear slaves in the farms and no information about how they eat or what they eat. You barely hear about slaves that cook in the cookhouse like Luke and Sarah on page 72. Plus, we haven’t really of any slaves out in the field yet since Dana has chosen to help out in the cookhouse.
ReplyDeleteThrough Dana is dragged back to Maryland in the early 1800s, she experienced what was the slave in that time. She described African American slavery. In page 35, she saw the cabin which black slave live in and then she saw the situation of the black man was out of cabin whipped by white man. Because he doesn't have a pass to go out. This book shows the emotions of each character's and be involved we feel with them.
ReplyDeleteYes, she really got to experience something of the horror suffered by her ancestors. Can you imagine slipping through a hole and coming out in the 1820's, not knowing whether or not you could ever return to 2016? Slave or no, I wouldn't want to live during that time. Life in general was hard—but especially for slaves.
DeleteMS→ Miki Maeda
ReplyDeleteI think people of that era tend to be very sensitive to new people. In page 13,14, Rufus's mother is hysterical, and she screams and strikes Dana while Dana saves him. His farther shoves a gun in her face and demanded to know what is going on.
For this response I'd like to address my response to how the story reflects the current state of race relations in our country, and what progress we've made as a society.
ReplyDeleteOn page 110 and 111, Dana retells about when she and Kevin go to their remaining family (Kevin's sister, and Dana's aunt and uncle who raised her) . Kevin's sister rejects Dana completely without even meeting her because she's black, and tells Kevin that he won't be allowed in her house if he marries Dana. Kevin tells Dana, and insists that there's no good reason for his sister to act this way. He doesn't understand her reasoning because he, obviously, doesn't feel the same way about African Americans.
Meanwhile, Dana's aunt says that it's okay because light-skinned blacks (the product of Dana and Kevin's child, apparently) will blend into America better. Her uncle says that he doesn't want Dana to marry Kevin, because he believes that whites should marry whites and blacks should marry blacks. So her uncle changed, in his will, to have the apartment buildings he owned to go to the local church instead of Dana, because he didn't want them to "fall into white hands".
I think the idea of family members rejecting the person you love is ignorant and revolting. The fact that none of the family members, black or white, even bothered to meet Dana or Kevin is part of the big reason why this country has so many problems with race. Interracial relationships, in my opinion, should not be an issue -- love is based on personality, not just appearances (at least in this case). I understand that people often think immediately of history when it comes to racial bias, and that's the reason for prejudice -- but I think that the bigger reason is the role appearances play in modern day life. To me, if my mother or father said I couldn't get married to a black man because of his skin color, that would be the same as saying, "Well, that white man's eyes are blue, so you can't get married." It's not reasonable to expect everyone to fall in love with someone of the same race -- and it's not fair.
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DeleteI would have with agree to your statement. Many people are looking to what has happened in African-American history and focus in on one terrible event that occurred. If one black decided to do 1000 deeds and then did something insignificant but what a white would consider "bad," people would forget about those 1000 deeds. They would target and dig deeper into that person's life. Must I also add, this happens to blacks a lot more than whites.
DeleteEmma, the fact that you're appalled by the prejudice against interracial relationships portrayed in the novel is a sign that social attitudes have evolved a lot since the 1970's (Kevin and Dana's time period). Interracial marriage was still exceptional back then and stigmatized. Now, society is much more accepting. Don't you think?
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ReplyDeleteOn page 123, Dana interrogates Rufus about raping Alice. She says he deserved the beating Alice's husband, Isaac, gave him -- but Rufus continues to argue that he is going to chase Isaac down and sell him. In this idea, he says he wants to buy Alice because, apparently, he loves her. But the idea of a white man loving a black woman is unimaginable and inappropriate to the majority of whites in the antebellum South. A line that supports this from page 124 is from Dana's mind: "I was beginning to realize he loved the woman - to her misfortune. There was no shame in raping a black woman, but there could be shame in loving one."
ReplyDeleteThis relates to African American history because the KKK would travel around the antebellum South to kill and rape black men and women. It seems that their actions made it acceptable for other white men and boys to rape black women and girls, despite the fact that African Americans were considered non-human, or animals. This disgusts me almost on a deeper level than rape in today's world, because it wasn't based necessarily on attraction, but more so on defiling and uprooting both a woman's pride and privacy.
I wish more women had been taught to fight as Dana did -- even if they knew they'd get in trouble -- because that would've given blacks a step further towards freedom.
Relating to how black women weren’t taught to fight back, it is shown in Alice’s situation. On page 166, when Dana is telling Alice what Rufus plans to do, Dana says to Alice, “Well, it looks as though you have three choices. You can go to him as he orders; you can refuse, be whipped, and then have him take you by force; or you can run away again.” Dana is giving Alice the option of fighting back but knows that she will lose, be hurt, and be raped anyways. If Alice knew how to properly fight, then she might’ve been able to fight back against Rufus and teach him not to mess with her. Yes, she would most likely be whipped, but Rufus might not want to or be in the condition to try anything on her again. Most times blacks attempted to fight back they would be overpowered by the whites. Even if they win in that moment, the whites would always end up winning; the whites always had more power.
DeleteRelating to Emma's observation above, it would have been considered perverse to LOVE a slave, since they were considered subhuman. Developing feelings of affection for slaves would humanize them, thereby shattering the essential fiction of their inferiority. Even so, I'm sure there were loving relationships, more the exception than the rule, perhaps. The example of Sally Hemings, Thomas Jefferson's mistress (and mother to several of his children), comes to mind.
DeleteAlso, in response to Griffin's remark, I wonder if over time, the instinct for self-defense and defiance was quelled into passive resignation—precisely for the reason you suggest: whites always won. Resistance was hopeless. (That said, there were a few instances of slave rebellions (e.g. Nat Turner's), all brutally squashed.)
On page 160, Alice yells at Dana for not telling her about the fight Rufus had gotten into with Isaac. She is also upset because Dana never reminded her of how Isaac’s ears were cut off and how he was sold to some random white. She goes on to say Dana should’ve just left Rufus to die (Isaac was winning the fight). Dana proceeds to say how her helping Rufus didn’t influence Alice and Isaac’s capture and also helped keep them from a possible execution. Alice realizes this is true and gets even more upset at Dana. She lashes out and says, “Doctor-nigger, think you know so much. Reading-nigger. White-nigger!“ I wanted to relate this to race relations back then versus now. That insult to Dana was meant to mean that everything she is capable of are things that are common among whites. Doctors were almost always white, they went to school and had knowledge on taking care of the injured. The way Dana nursed Rufus right after the fight and all the way to his recovery shows that Dana has that knowledge. It’s also well known around the plantation that Dana is able to read and write. Slaves were almost never taught how to read and write because if they could then they might be able to use it to their advantage and escape. Back in Chapter 2 on page 49, Dana and Kevin are trying to prepare for when Dana has to go back once more. A quote from it is, “One of the reasons it was against the law in some states to teach slaves to read and write was that they might escape by writing themselves passes.” Obviously slave owners don’t want their slaves to escape so they avoid teaching them at all costs. Alice is attempting to compare Dana to whites because she is one of the only blacks that can do these things. She’s saying that Dana has it easy and it’s as if her skin color were white. Alice’s separation of blacks and whites is very real in their time period. Today, almost everybody–in the U.S. at least–has the privilege of learning how to read, write, and even obtain a basic knowledge in health. Skin color doesn’t matter and the separation in knowledge isn’t as strong of a stereotype or reality anymore. There is still stereotypes and separation between whites and blacks but usually they are just stereotypes, and that’s it. In the 1800’s, many of the things people said about each race was true. Saying that blacks can’t read or write back then was mostly true; now, saying blacks can’t read or write is seen as extremely racist and isn’t acceptable. I think over the last two hundred or so years, we’ve progressed very well. A layer of racism still exists in our society but we’ve cut down upon separation between blacks and whites greatly. We’re much more equal now.
ReplyDeleteTo concur and add on to what you have in the upper part of this paragraph, I want to mention page 120, where Dana tells Isaac she can write him a pass. She offered merely because she didn't want him sent to his death at another plantation, but, as quoted directly by the book, "He looked at me with no trust at all, then turned and walked away without answering." It wasn't only whites that thought blacks shouldn't read, but other blacks as well. Isaac assumed that Dana was a law breaker and would get him into further trouble.
DeleteYou both make terrific points here. I'll add that Weylin was immediately suspicious of Dana when he heard her New York accent. She spoke properly (probably better than he did), and that was weird. As Griffin says, literate blacks were dangerous to the plantation system. And other blacks feared they might be likely to stir up trouble, as Emma notes.
DeleteGoing back to Griffin's last note about the existence of illiterate blacks today, I think it's sadly a reality, especially in the inner city. The combination of poverty, deficient schools, broken families, and epidemic limits the opportunities of many young black men today. Racism still plays a role, I think, but it's hard to quantify.
I’d like to take a look at something in the book that I find interesting without addressing any of the prompts in particular. Rufus’s relationship with Alice interests me because of how chaotic it is. Earlier in the book on page 61, when Kevin is meeting Rufus for the first time, Dana says, “Also, where we come from, whites and blacks can marry.” Rufus responds with, “But it’s against the law.” In this part Rufus doesn’t understand Kevin and Dana’s relationship. For one, it is illegal for them to be husband and wife. Rufus also just doesn’t understand why Kevin would find love towards someone who is black. To Rufus they’re just slaves, poorly-educated and beneath everyone else. Why marry one of them? I find this is to be so important because later in the book Rufus shows (in horrible ways) his love for Alice, who is black. He attempts to kill the man she loves because he thinks that doing that will make Alice love him. After she escapes with Isaac and is caught, Rufus pretends to send out Dana’s letter to Kevin. All he really wants is to buy Alice. He does so and she’s in a terrible condition. He has her heal in his room until she is able to move on her own. When Alice is in better condition, she begins to remember what happened and realizes how awful Rufus is. On pages 162 to 164, Rufus attempts to get Dana to talk to Alice so that she won’t fight back when Rufus rapes her. He obviously knows that Alice hates him, yet, he still tries to be with her. Dana ends up talking to Alice and she knows that Rufus will succeed at what he plans to do whether she fights it or not. Since she is a slave and is owned by him, she doesn’t have much power. She can obviously say no but if Rufus would fight her rejection through beatings (which he plans to do) then he still won’t be punished. Rufus is able to force her to do whatever he wants without much backlash. I’ve known how much power whites had over blacks and the countless times slave owners would rape their slaves; seeing a story of it actually happening is a whole different thing. It made me realize how terrible it was to live each day knowing your vulnerability as a slave. Alice didn’t have a say, any attempt to stop what was forced upon her would be met with even more force. I wonder how other slave owners would react to Rufus’s relationship with Alice. Would they shun him plainly for loving a black? Would they shun him for so deeply forcing the relationship on her? Or would they accept it as normal and possibly be able to relate to it with their own lives?
ReplyDeleteI was disgusted, too, by Rufus' reason for raping Alice. On one hand, he could be shunned for loving Alice; on the other, his father could just whip Alice to death and force Rufus to move on. The bluntness of his father's feelings towards blacks is shown when he makes an example of a different slave nearly every day, by whipping, even when they really haven't done anything. I hope that if Rufus' parents do find out, they don't kill him or Alice -- but there's an ominous feeling above Rufus and Alice's relationship.
DeleteI feel as if Rufus got the idea of loving a black from Kevin, like you said and he just doesn't understand how love actually works. Plus, from what we have heard, he hasn't gotten out much besides seeing slaves around the house here and there. Also, he is very temperamental when it comes to having some one close to him; such as Dana. He always gets mad and lashes out at the ones he loves when he doesn't get what he wants but when they attempt to leave him, he breaks downs.
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ReplyDeleteI would like to address the fact that Dana left Kevin in the past. But not on purpose. On page 107, Tom Weylin was whipping Dana for teaching Nigel how to read and write, but was found out by Weylin. Therefore, a way to go home, right? No, not exactly. Since Kevin wasn’t with Dana at the time, he wasn’t able to go back home. But Kevin tried to send messages to Dana if she ever came back in the time span she left. Which also kind of messes with how we think time works due to the past going faster than the time in the present. Until page 117, when she finally got called back, Rufe was years older and Kevin was long gone. But Kevin had sent messages and traveled back to the Weylins’ years before according to page 135. But who knows how long those messages took to arrive and how long it’ll take for Dana’s message to reach him. Or will have they even been delivered?
ReplyDeleteThe time travel in this book can be very confusing and interesting. On page 135, as you mentioned, Dana is attempting to explain to Rufus how time has barely moved for her in the real world. What I noticed is that each stay of hers in Rufus’s time is getting longer. I don’t know if it is just a coincidence that Dana is only being put in situations where she might die less often. It seems as though the effect of her “power” is becoming weaker though. On page 176, after Dana is caught by Rufus and Tom Weylin, she is being beat and whipped as punishment. Dana pleads in her mind that she will go home but never does because she knows that she won’t die. When she first left Kevin, she was in the same situation. Dana was being whipped and disappeared because she thought she was going to die. This time though, she wasn’t as afraid and already had experience with it. She knew that her power would save her but being conscious of this power seemed to hurt her. Dana didn’t teleport back and was left to be whipped and beaten. I wonder how Dana’s powers and the time travel will change the further we get into the book.
DeleteRelations between blacks and whites is very unstable. Seeing a black in the streets means danger to a white; vice-versa. It’s happening a lot more now than in the past but people are believing what they hear from some extremely bias individual. And that’s what people go off of when they see each other. Sort of like how on page 93, Margaret Weylin tried to kick Dana out of the house just because she was black. Also, Margaret called her a “filthy black whore” and said “This is a Christian house!” but did nothing to actually kick Dana out; she just kept stepping backwards until she decided it was a good idea to just walk away. Margaret was scared of Dana because Dana made no move of violence. However, many other black slaves would’ve shown her that they’re in the house for a reason and she should be grateful for what she has. But people in the past are ignorant, but so are many today as well.
ReplyDeleteYou’re definitely right. Blacks and whites had,—and partially still have—a fine line separating them. I think Margaret was scared of Dana in that scene because of the power she knew Dana had. She knew how smart Dana was and the liking Rufus had for her. Margaret didn’t want Rufus to be close with Dana because she despised her and because she was a slave. On pages 103 and 104, Dana reads to Rufus while Margaret is in the same room. Margaret keeps interrupting Dana’s reading on purpose to disrespect Dana. She wants Dana to say as little as possible and leave as quickly as possible. Rufus gets upset and yells at Margaret to stop and leave him alone. Margaret is obviously hurt by this because it shows Rufus’s liking of Dana over her. Margaret might not of been as offended if Dana were white. Since she’s black, Margaret is astonished that her son would prefer Dana over her.
DeleteYes, I agree that Margaret feels threatened by Dana because Rufus prefers Dana's company. Dana is relaxed and can read anything, but Margaret Weylin has relatively no school smarts whatsoever. Dana's entire set of skills is contradictory to what Margaret believes blacks should be able to do. To Margaret, Dana is simply another slave, who she wants to feel superior to. I wonder if Margaret also feels threatened by Tom Weylin's previous wife, who was said to have a whole library of books that she read.
DeleteMiki
ReplyDeleteOn page 106, Nigel took Danna's spelling test and he wrote every word right.Even he passed the test, they had to burn the paper as if nothing had happened. I felt sad. If I was him I would want to keep the paper. "I hugged him. He grinned, half-embarrassed, half-please." I could see they are rejoicing a lot.
Yeah, I see why would want to keep that paper. It would mean a lot to Nigel if he actually knew how important his test was. But since he didn't get to learn what kids at school learned, there isn't much he would feel accomplished about in academics besides when Dana hugged him.
DeleteThe fact that many slaves hated the way they were treated and had no say in what happened to them, it made sense that Alice hung herself on page 248. It surprised me that he sent their kids away when Alice just started to like Rufe (according to page 251). Rufus was a person that it was hard to be around because of his personality. Plus, he learned all he knew from his father which didn't help at all. Because of Rufus's rough childhood, his personality couldn’t be changed later in life. For example, he tried to burn down his house and stable to get attention (page 20) but Dana saved him from the havoc he could’ve brought upon himself. And she’s done that over and over again but Rufus just won’t learn from his mistakes. He’s a lost cause, and the only reason he’s still alive is because Dana needed him and Alice to have a Hagar.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book it’s obvious that Rufus can never be fully dealt with. I wonder how much of his attitude comes from his father because he’s often compared to him. On pages 197 and 198, Dana is called back to the plantation again. It says, “I looked around grimly for Rufus.” (pg. 197). Dana is starting to get tired of helping Rufus. She knows that she has to save his life and then deal with him until she comes close to death. She just thinks that it’s going to be a never-ending cycle. It probably would’ve been if Dana didn’t finally kill him on page 260. She saw that she was always called to save his life; so, as long as she was always on his side, Rufus wouldn’t die. Dana just had to become fed up with it enough to kill him herself. Rufus was the root for so many problems and Dana finally kept him from starting anymore.
DeleteIn African-American history, slaves had the hardest lives of anyone. They worked hand and foot to please the white man who bought them. However, usually the field workers, like Tess, were built strong. But were sold almost instantly if they didn’t do what the white slave owner wanted like on page 221. Tess was a woman who was strong but didn’t have children; so she was sold. However, Dana thought that Rufe set up the sale but it was really Tom Weylin who set it up before he died. Which makes sense in a way. Since Tom Weylin was the owner at the time, he had to make arrangements to sell the slaves he wanted. It may not be right, but it happened a lot just so a slave owner got what they wanted.
ReplyDeleteI see what you’re saying. I wonder if Tom Weylin decided to sell her because he thought that he’d get more money from her than others? The traders probably would pay more for someone who has been through tough labor like Tess. They’d have more possibilities of work than someone like Sarah who works in the cookhouse. In the fifth chapter, Rufus takes his anger out on Dana after his father passes. He does this by sending her out to do field work. I think this part of the chapter really shows how difficult it was to be a field hand and how valuable someone like that would be. When Dana is out there, Fowler keeps watch of her and whips her whenever she slows down. On page 212, one of the field hands explains that he’s trying to test how fast Dana can work. She then says, “Then later on if they slow down, he whip ‘em for gettin’ lazy.” (pg. 212). This shows how new people working in the fields were treated. They were made to work harder than their body wanted them to. Constant work like that would toughen them up greatly.
DeleteI hate the idea of slaves being treated as less than human, and it has bothered me throughout the book. The tortured pain of constant work was definitely reimagined for me as Dana was forced to work in the fields. Whereas today we find have our conventional ways of testing people's abilities (for example, physical, mental or emotional exams), slaves were physically and psychologically exerted. I find myself making the connection between the colloquial phrase, "slave driver" to the men who oversaw the field hands; but today, there aren't as many physically exhausting tasks that are forced upon us. Modern day kids may hate their gym teacher for giving them zeroes if they don't participate; how would those kids feel if the gym teacher walked around beating them to see how fast they could go, and then hold them to that standard?
DeleteYes, the life of a field slave is harder than we could possibly imagine. Long hours, roasting sun, relentless & backbreaking labor. Many, like Dana, were beaten into a sullen submission. "After a while, I was so tired, I didn't care either way. Pain was pain. After a while, I just wanted to lie down between the rows and not get up again" (212). This life was a hell, relieved only by brief spells of sleep. I'd think one's human spirit could be crushed under such conditions. No wonder Tess didn't acknowledge Dana's goodbye; she was forced into not feeling anymore.
DeleteFor my fifth response, I want to bring up African American slave history. On page 177, Dana states that she wanted to die during the beating because death would ease the pain. This made me wonder if every slave wanted to die back when slavery was ordinary. In the 1800’s, there really wasn't anything a slave could access that would give them a chance to commit suicide, but if we had slaves nowadays, I feel like many of them would kill themselves to avoid the torture of captivity.
ReplyDeleteLater on page 181, another slave tells Dana, “I ain’t supposed to have no feelings.” I felt like that summed up most of the anger and disgust that slaves had for white people or free blacks. Being a slave meant having extremely limited freedom of speech, religion, and even thought. I believe that might’ve been the motivation for the slaves who rebelled against their masters — what did they have to lose?
Dana’s first sightings of slaves earlier in the book made her think of how muscled the black men were compared to the white plantation owners, which is accurate. If not for guns, whips, or other weapons that white men held, there wouldn’t have been slavery, because the blacks were so muscular from working on fields that a rebellion would easily be won by the slaves.
Slaves were most definitely thinking about suicide. They didn’t have much chance to do it though and a lot of the time they couldn’t when they started families. For example, Rufus would rape Alice. Alice most likely hated her life and would’ve ended it if she had the chance. The only problem she ran into was that she had children. They made her want to live and be happy. As long as she had her children safe, she was happy. It must be very terrifying to have black children at the time because of the possibility of them being sold. Even though Alice had some power over Rufus since he was in love with her, she was still scared of her kids being sold. She even got Rufus to allow Dana to teach Joe (one of their kids) how to read and write, as she explained to Dana on page 230. Throughout all of this, she just wanted her kids to be free. Rufus was going to free them too, but Alice didn’t want to risk it any longer. She tried to escape with the kids but failed. Out of pain, Rufus sent the kids to Baltimore with family to scare Alice. That’s when she got to the point where she wanted to end her life and she meant it. On page 248, Rufus leads Dana to the barn where Alice had hung herself. Also, referring to your second point, I believe that slaves would’ve rebelled against their owners together if they could. The problem is that escaping their owners was only the beginning. There was a whole world of whites out there who would hunt them down as proven by when Alice and Isaac attempted to escape. The whites had power, money, guns, horses, and so on. They had it all while slaves had very little. I think many of them would’ve rather accepted their life on the plantation than an attempt of rebellion. They just didn’t think that they could win.
DeleteYes; this all made me curious as to how many people in that era did commit suicide. I did a Google search, "How many slaves in the 1800's committed suicide?" The first article that I opened was titled, "The Last Resort". The second talked about how depression and anxiety were 'common maladies' amongst slaves, as a side affect of being imprisoned. This same article also stated that suicide was a way for slaves to "exhibit control in their life". I'm honestly surprised that Alice didn't commit suicide, even though she had children, because at that point in her life she had only the slightest bit of control over herself or her future.
DeleteThis would be interesting to research further. Thanks, Emma, for looking into it. It's easy to understand why so many slaves would have surrendered to hopelessness and despair—and turned to suicide as one last measure of individual control. The few documented rebellions were bloody failures, exactly for the reasons Griffin proposes. No matter how driven by rage and determination, slaves were always overpowered by the force of white society. The social system was too entrenched. Even white abolitionists were criticized by moderate politicians in the North, like Abraham Lincoln, who didn't approve of slavery but also didn't want to upset the Southern status quo.
DeleteYeah, like what Griffin said, they thought about suicide but could never actually do it. Due to families they could be starting or just pure fear can stop a person from doing something they want to do. So when Alice hung herself, that surprised me because I saw Rufe and her getting a long better. That was until Rufe sent her children away; which was downright cruel.
DeleteOn page 202, I had to stop and make a note to reference about history again, because it stunned me. Even doctors would show racial bias against slaves. If a black person required medical attention because they contracted an illness or had a bad injury, many doctors would allow them to die out of hatred. Nigel said to Dana, “He gave me some stuff once, nearly killed me. From then on, I just let Sarah doctor me when I’m sick. ‘Least she don’t dose niggers like they was horses or mules.”
ReplyDeleteThis hit home for me because I want to be a doctor when I’m older — and it didn’t even cross my mind that a doctor would discriminate against patients by the color of their skin. It angers me that whites ever thought we were superior to blacks. We showed so little respect to a culture that has more integrity and sentiment than most of the European castaways had.
Well said, Emma. Whites were indeed largely ignorant of the richness of African culture. Given their ignorance, disrespect, and inhumane treatment of both Native Americans and African Americans, one might argue that white Europeans were the real "savages."
DeleteWhites back in the 1800's were fairly ignorant in both classes of medical issues and how to "actually" help a black. Doctors back then didn't want to hurt a white if they were sick but when it came to some one with different colored skin, it would change the entire story of how that doctor could act. I.e. when Nigel was given the "stuff" and almost killed him.
DeleteI would like to bring up the idea of a “single story” in this response. We live in a time that is—for us at least—past slavery. There is obviously still slavery around the world but in the US it has been abolished. Since we don’t actually live in the 1800’s, we don’t know what slavery was exactly like. We now have this single story that slaves were always treated absolutely awfully and hated their lives. If this book is historically correct, that’s not how it always was. Slaves were treated terribly and they weren’t always able to choose how their life was, that is obvious. People just think that it was a constant thing. Rufus had children with Alice (who is black) and ends up liking them. In particular Joe, he was born black and was probably going to just be sold when he was old enough. Rufus probably didn’t think about it much until Alice mentioned that Joe should be schooled so that he wouldn’t be ignorant. On page 230, she talks to Dana about how she convinced Rufus to let Dana teach Joe how to read and write. Dana says “You’ve got a damn bright little kid there. You ought to be proud.” (pg. 231) to Rufus after teaching Joe for a few days. The book then says, “He had spent his life watching his father ignore, even sell the children he had with black women. Apparently, it had never occurred to Rufus to break that tradition. Until now.” (pg. 231). Rufus wanted to make his kids’ lives good. He even confirms to Dana that he’s going to give Joe a “free pass” on page 235. Rufus ends up being a good father (for a white father of a black son in the 1800’s) and frees his children. He’s being nice to who would have been slaves. The plantation they live on is fairly laid back too. The field hands live a tough life but some of the others are treated pretty nicely and don’t absolutely hate their lives. Alice even gets to live with her children in a cabin and only attempts to run away because she is afraid of Rufus possibly selling her kids. It’s apparent that he is picking and choosing who to treat better and who not to. For example, he loves Alice and grew up with Nigel. Even though that’s true, Rufus is still treating a good amount of slaves properly. Now when we think of slaves, we think of them being beaten everyday and living unlivable lives. That is what happened, and I don’t think that we should be focusing on any positives because they’re rare. I’m just showing the idea of a single story that isn’t as true as we make it out to be. The book denies the idea that all slaves were treated completely awfully every single day. I think that the book should’ve shown a slight bit more of abuse of slaves. I think this because although it made the 1800’s seem terrifying, it didn’t really seem as horrible as it really was back in the 1800’s.
ReplyDeleteGreat point, Griffin. The single story notion works both ways. There were myriad exceptions to the stereotype of the evil slaveowner. Yes, some slaves were well treated, relatively speaking. And there were many instances of intimacy, even affection, among whites and their slaves. In fact, Southern whites were more emotionally bound to blacks than most Northerners, even those campaigning for emancipation.
DeleteThe idea that some slaves were treated like people makes slavery seem a little less than how horrible it seems, like you said. But we can't get rid of the single-story that slaves were still treated terribly and that event in history is unforgettable. Blacks were once treated less than a person, they won't forget that and we shouldn't either.
DeleteWell said, Nathan. Nor should we ever forget what happened—what cruelty we as a people are capable of—lest it happen again.
DeleteI agree. This book show us how Slaves were treated terribly. On page 239, at the cookhouse Dana heard one of the traders say, "You ought to sell THAT ONE too. Trouble maker!" Traders don't see slaves as human and if there is something they don't like even little thing, they decide to sell or whip them.
DeleteOn page 230 Alice convinces Rufus to let Dana teach their son Joe to read. Alice told Dana "It was my Christmas present."
DeleteOn page 253 Joe ran to Dana and said "I can read better now. Daddy's been teaching me. Wanna hear?" I'm glad Rufes changed his direction that way.
The ending of this book made me think about how all of it led up to Rufus’s death. In the beginning, he was just a white kid who was growing up on a plantation. As he became older, he started to become much more like a slave owner. Dana compared him many times to his father, which makes sense since he’s the one Rufus is probably looking up to. When Tom Weylin (Rufus’s father) dies from a heart attack on pages 208 and 209, Rufus has to take over the plantation. Rufus is expected to be blunt with the slaves and carry on as his father would’ve. He does that, even carrying out a sale of slaves that his father arranged (pg. 221&222). On page 226, when Dana asks Rufus if he’s going to sell anymore slaves, Rufus says, “I hope not. I don’t like it.” He then goes onto say that the only reason he has to do it sometimes is because his father left debts when he died. As I mentioned in my last response, Rufus even ends up giving free papers to his children so they don’t have to live a slave life. I feel like Rufus was going to grow up just like Tom Weylin. He would’ve only cared about himself and his family—the whites at least. Since Dana is from twentieth century and slavery is gone, she tries to steer Rufus away from being like his father. I think that Dana played big role in Rufus’s life because he began to like some of the slaves and treated them all with a fair amount of respect when he took over the plantation. Unless if I missed it happening, I don’t think there was any mention of Rufus directly whipping anyone after his father died. He always threatened to get his father to whip people before, but when he took over I don’t think he saw any reason to do it himself. Dana tried her hardest to get him to treat blacks as equally as whites, but I don’t know if it was possible. He could’ve tried, but growing up in the 1800’s made the idea seem bizarre and illogical. Society would’ve shunned him and if he went too far he’d be going against the law. She did impact him enough though to keep away from extreme abuse (for the most part) and to respect his slaves as human beings. He loved Alice and used his advantage of him being white and her being black to get what he wanted from her. He would rape her and ended up having children with her. He treated her well but she was completely forced into the relationship. When Rufus was little he learned about Kevin (white) being married to Dana (black) and how normal that was to them. I wonder, if Rufus had never known about Kevin and Dana, would he have fallen in love with Alice? He might’ve began to but stopped himself and called himself crazy for thinking of falling in love with a black woman. Dana was with Rufus for a combined total of a year or two, but that wasn’t enough to keep him from being a stereotypical slave owner. He still abused his power, less than Tom Weylin, but still a fair amount. As I mentioned before, he raped Alice. When she had her children she tried running away because she was afraid Rufus would sell them. Rufus then sends them to Baltimore where there’s family but Alice doesn’t know and thinks that he really did sell them. This causes her to hang herself.
ReplyDelete(Had to split the two up because it was above 4,000 characters)
DeleteOn page 251, Rufus explains to Dana what happened. He says that sending them to Baltimore and making her think he sold them was meant to scare her and show her what he had the power to do. Alice knew that Rufus had the power to sell off her kids to make some money, ruining her life and her kids’. Rufus is broken when he loses Alice, he doesn’t want to be alone. So he turns to Dana, who he has compared to Alice before (also, Alice is an ancestor of her’s). Dana denies Rufus but all he wants is Dana. He is lost without her and doesn’t want her to leave like she has many times before. The entire book Dana had been trying to teach Rufus to respect black people and allowing them to have basic human rights. He had done fairly well for the most part, but in this moment all Rufus could use to get what he wants is his power. He had to take away Dana’s rights and get what he wanted by force. On pages 259 and 260, Rufus attempts to rape Dana. She almost allows him to because forgiving him might be easier than killing him, but then decides against that. Dana finally kills Rufus using a hidden knife and her time travel ends. Although Dana had taught Rufus so much, his morals were never top priority.
By the final chapter of the book, I was sort of taken aback at first by the method Octavia Butler chose to end the story. My first assumption in the first half of the book was that Dana would stop time-traveling once Rufus had died, presumably of natural causes; but I can also see how the rage Dana had built up against Rufus could easily come rushing out all at once. Dana had an incredible tolerance level for Rufus' behavior; alas, Rufus attempting to rape her was ultimately the last straw. I feel that Dana killed him easily in the heat of the moment because everything Rufus had done came back to him.. Some people call that karma.
DeleteMiki
ReplyDeleteOn page 157, Alice told Dana what her mother said to her. "Mama said she'd rather be dead than be a slave. I realized again how slave had to spend days in agony every day and fear of whipping, they never know their master suddenly changed their attitude.
The writer also wrote about feeling of woman slave who has a children. I'm painfully aware of how mothers feel. Their love for their children is no difference between that time and now. Alice attempt suicide, because Rufus sold her sons. I was with grief and surprise. I can't imagine how much her feeling of despair, loneliness and anger. She had no choice except running away or death.
ReplyDeleteMiki, you make a wonderful point that there is NO DIFFERENCE between a slave mother's love for her children and a modern mother's love. It's hard to imagine any experience more painful than having a child taken away and sold into probably a worse condition of slavery. White people had to dehumanize slaves; otherwise, it would have violated their Christian principles to participate in such cruelty.
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